Chapter 10 Discussion Questions

Here are some questions to think about for Chapter 10. Hope you are having a good week.

1. How much time do you think modern Jews spend teaching their children about the Messiah?

2. What opinion do you think most Jews have of Jesus?

3. What are some objections have with Christians about how we view the Messiah?

4. What are some famous Old Testament Messianic prophesies you've heard?

5. Could it be that Jesus just fulfilled these by accident or coincidence?

6. Could it be that followers changed the biography of Jesus to make it look like he fulfilled prophesy when he really didn't?

7. Could it be that Jesus studies these and then intentionally tried to fulfill them?

8. Is it possible that Christians read these prophesies out of context and they really aren't Messianic prophesies at all?

Chapter 9 Discussion Part 3

Well, Chapter 9 has been quite a journey. I never dreamed it would take me this long to address all the issues. Here are some more responses to the questions I posted several days ago. Please go to my previous posts and think about these before looking at my responses. Let me know what you think.


6. How would you respond to the idea that Jesus was just a normal man and that the idea of him being God was made up by later followers, possibly as late as 325 AD by Constantine as Dan Brown proposes in the DaVinci Code? It is easy to prove that Dan Brown is way off base here. In previous posts I have demonstrated how Jesus' apostles worshipped Him as god and all those writings are dated to the first century. I'm also reading through the Antenicene Fathers which are Christian writings all dated before the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. It is a ten volume encyclopedia of writings that all call Jesus God. Even non-Christian writings such as Tacitus refer to how Christians were being persecuted for worshipping Jesus as God. All of this happened before Constantine was even born.


7. If Jesus did not claim to be God but merely the Son of God then what would he be like? Would any form of deity have rubbed off on him? Would he be half-man/half-God like Hercules? Would he have any supernatural powers? It is hard for me to imagine how Jesus can be the Son of God but only an exalted human being. At the very least Jesus should be half god or a lesser god. Reformed Christians believe in the virgin birth but not the Trinity so where did the other half of Jesus' human DNA come from that makes him only human. If he is the Son of God then some of God's deity should have rubbed off on him which should be evident from his power over the laws of nature. If you can believe in a virgin birth then why is the Trinity such a hard concept to grasp. We need to remember that God is far more complex than we can imagine but Reformed Christians try to put God in a box that explains him by our limited means. Physicists have shown that there are dimensions that we as humans cannot detect so it is conceivable that God could be triune but that it is hard to picture that in our limited four dimensions.


Chapter 9 also addresses the following questions:


8. If God is loving then why does he sentence people to Hell? God is loving but he is also just. He cannot allow unforgiven sin to enter Heaven. Besides, is it really God sending people to Hell or do they choose to go there? Why does someone who wants nothing to do with God on earth want to spend eternity with Him? It seems to me they would be happier in Hell where God wont bother them anymore.

9. If Jesus is so loving then why did he not speak out against slavery, which was so prevalent in the first century Roman world? We tend to picture slavery in light of the American Civil War. That form of slavery could be very cruel and harsh. But that is not what was going on in the Roman world. Slavery then had limits and was not necessarily based on race. A slave had to be released after seven years and some people voluntarily sold themselves into slavery to work off debts they could not pay monetarily. Remember, Jesus came to save us spiritually not to overthrow political powers or settle civil disputes. Also, Jesus came primarily to Jews so it should not be surprising that he did not address a Roman social issue. You have to be careful of saying Jesus supported something just because he didn't address it. It is not right to make a case out of silent evidence. I don't know anyone that would say that Jesus believed it was OK to keep young boys as sex objects but pederasty was a common Roman practice that Jesus didn't address either. Since he came to Jews who would not practice this you would expect Him to not talk about it.


Wow, that was a lot of material. Digest on this a few days and I'll get chapter 10 up next. Have a great week.

Chapter 9 Discussion Part 2

Today I want to respond to a couple more of the chapter 9 discussion questions from a previous post. We will focus today on evidence for the Trinity from both the Old and New Testaments.

4. What evidence would you give from the Old Testament for the Trinity? If the evidence is there then why are Jews such strict monotheists (Unitarians) that they reject Trinitarianism? It is quite obvious that there are much more references to the Trinity in the New Testament than the Old Testament. However, if the Trinity is true then there should be at least hints to it found in the Old Testament. The video entitled "The Human Jesus" I mentioned in a previous post points out something I have seen before called the "Shema". I believe Jews particularly quote this during Passover. It is basically the verse that says "Remember Oh Israel that the Lord God is one". Jews place an extreme amount of importance to this verse and this is why they are such strict monotheists. They reject the idea of the Trinity because even though Christians still believe in one God the idea looks so much like polytheism to them. I believe the first clue to look at is in Genesis chapter 1. God is called Elohim, which is actually the plural of El. This name is used with a singular verb showing that God has some plural attributes and some singular attributes. Later it says "Let us create man in our image" again showing a plural aspect to God. Some scholars say that they have seen in ancient literature what is called the "Majestic Plural" where a king would refer to himself in the plural to emphasize his power and that Moses is just using a literary technique to show God's power here. But if the Shema is so important and Moses was such a strict monotheist you would expect him to shy away from this because of the confusion it could cause. Later in Genesis we see Abraham being visited by three men representing God but the conversation is recorded as though he were talking to one. The three seem to be unusually unified in their purpose. Isaiah actually prophesies that the Messiah would be Mighty God, and called Immanuel, which means "God with us".

5. If you believe in the Trinity then what evidence do you see in the New Testament of this or that Jesus considered himself to be God in any way? The first verses most people will refer to here is when Jesus said "I and the Father are one" and "if you have seen me you have seen the Father". Next is the famous "I am" statement which refers to God speaking to Moses in the burning bush. Jesus appears to be claiming to be the God that spoke to Moses. In Greek, "I am" is a combination of the words "ego emei". This combination is found about eight times in the Gospels. "Ego" means "I" and "emei" means "I am" so in English this would be "I, I am". I am means to exist and humans exists because they were created by God. Jesus saying that I, I am means that he was not created but that he has always existed and by saying he existed before Abraham he is claiming to be the God who created the universe and was there at the beginning. John affirms this by calling him the Logos. Greek philosophers used the word Logos to refer to the creator and sustainer of the universe. Although not a famous verse I feel that Paul in Romans 9:5 makes the most outright claim of Jesus' deity when he says "...the human genealogy of Christ who is God overall be praised". This very clearly shows both the human and divine natures of Jesus. To reject Paul means to reject possibly the second most important figure in Christian history second only to Christ himself.

I'll have to cover more later. God Bless.

Chapter 9 Discussion Part 1

The questions I posted yesterday are pretty intense so I don't think I have time to answer all of them in one day. Please read the previous post before reading further and reflect on the questions before you see my response.

1. When you read the Old Testament what impression do you get about God? Is he primarily wrathful? As I read the Old Testament I actually see God's compassion and slowness to anger more than his anger. With Sodom and Gomorrah He said he would spare the whole wicked cities if only 10 righteous people could be found. He often says that he gives evil empires (Assyria, Babylonia and Persia) time to repent before He will bring destruction on them. He sent Jonah as a missionary to Assyria. He tells the Jews that they are too caught up with sacrifice and that He "desires mercy more then sacrifice". He instructs Hosea to marry a prostitute to symbolize how patient He is with the unfaithfulness of Israel. God appears pretty patient and kind here to me.

2. When you read the New Testament do you get the impression that Jesus thought of himself as God? I find it impossible to read the New Testament and not see where both Jesus claimed to be God and his immediate followers (apostles) and second generation Christians worship Him as God. If this is wrong then the very people closest to Jesus (Peter, James and John and Paul who wrote two thirds of the New Testament) are in great error. If this error is so blatant then everything else taught about Christ must be suspect. Jesus said "before Abraham was, I am". He is saying that he is the I am that spoke to Moses in the burning bush. In Greek I am means that I exist by my own power or in other words Jesus is saying that he is not a created being but always has existed and was alive even before Abraham ever walked the earth. John calls Jesus the Logos which Greek philosophers used to refer to the God who created and sustains the universe. People argue against this but all you have to do is look at the reaction of the Jewish leaders and see that they understood exactly what he was saying. They tore their robes and wanted him crucified for blasphemy.

3. Historians give credit to Tertullian developing the doctrine of the Trinity about 180 AD so why do Christians accept it as an essential of the faith when it was not developed until 150 years after Jesus' ministry? On the surface this fact would make you find the Doctrine of the Trinity suspect. However, it should not be discarded until we see if there is a Biblical basis for it and that the concept is in the New Testament. Above I mentioned Jesus calling himself the "I am" and John calling Him the Logos. Jesus also taught with is own authority unlike other Rabbis who referred to other witnesses. Jesus said "you have heard...but I say to you", this means he has authority of God not man. Jesus forgave sins which the Jewish leaders said only God has the right to do. Jesus accepted worship and said if you see him you also see the Father for they are one. These are too many occurrences from Jewish people (Jesus and the apostles were Jews) if believing that Jesus is God is a violation of strict Jewish monotheism. One verse not many people know about is actually the most blatant reference of Christ being God. Romans 9:5 is where Paul says that "Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God,..." It can't be put much clearer than that. Many people claim that the idea of Jesus being God was instituted later by Constantine in 325 AD. I am currently reading Christian writings from the first three centuries and it is littered with references to Christ as God. Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Tatian and several others from the late first century and second century say this. The reason it comes up is because they want to know why they are being persecuted by the Romans for their belief in Christ being God when the Romans believe the Zeus had sex with a woman and had Hercules or that Caesar was god in the flesh. Why is Christianity considered ridiculous and the Roman mythology actually honored? If Jesus being God is legendary then what we should see is that the apostles and early Christians refer to him as only a man and then the deification taking place in the late first or second century. Actually the opposite is true. The apostles and early Christians refer to Jesus as God and then the idea that he was not God creeps in later. I am forced to conclude that the evidence weighs heavily in favor of the Trinity.

I hope to post more over the next few days. Take care!

Chapter 9 Discussion Questions

Chapter 9 brings up a topic that so many people struggle with and have a hard time accepting about Jesus. This chapter deals with profiling and tackles the question of whether Jesus fits the profile of God. Some people argue that the God of the Old Testament comes across as judgmental and wrathful while Christ comes across as compassionate and forgiving so, how can they be the same person? I will respond more tomorrow but I want you the think about the following questions on your own before you let someone else influence your thought process. If you scroll down a couple of posts you will see that a gentleman, whose computer screen name is "Adam Pastor", posted a friendly disagreement with me. He says that Jesus never claimed to be God but only claimed to be the "Son of God". He then left a link to a two hour video. So far I have watched the first 15 minutes and will respond more tomorrow but if you want to check it out do so and let me know what you think.


1. When you read the Old Testament what impression do you get about God? Is he primarily wrathful?


2. When you read the New Testament do you get the impression that Jesus thought of himself as God?


3. Historians give credit to Tertullian developing the doctrine of the Trinity about 180 AD so why do Christians accept it as an essential of the faith when it was not developed until 150 years after Jesus' ministry?


4. What evidence would you give from the Old Testament for the Trinity? If the evidence is there then why are Jews such strict monotheists (Unitarians) that they reject Trinitarianism?


5. If you believe in the Trinity then what evidence do you see in the New Testament of this or that Jesus considered himself to be God in any way?


6. How would you respond to the idea that Jesus was just a normal man and that the idea of him being God was made up by later followers, possibly as late as 325 AD by Constantine as Dan Brown proposes in the DaVinci Code?


7. If Jesus did not claim to be God but merely the Son of God then what would he be like? Would any form of deity have rubbed off on him? Would he be half-man/half-God like Hercules? Would he have any supernatural powers?


Chapter 9 also addresses the following questions:


8. If God is loving then why does he sentence people to Hell?


9. If Jesus is so loving then why did he not speak out against slavery, which was so prevalent in the first century Roman world?


Thank you Adam for you food for thought and the video to challenge us. I pray that as I take time to evaluate your arguments that you will do the same. Everyone take time to think about these questions and I will post responses by tomorrow or soon after.


May God Bless us in our search for Truth!

Chapter 8 Discussion

Here are some responses to the Chapter 8 Discussion questions.


1. Some people respond that they think Christ was a great man with great talent but was a little off mentally when he thought he was God, how would you respond? We will see more specific responses in the following questions but my first response is what evidence is there to indicate insanity. Jesus responded in very normal, humble and compassionate ways. Even the instances of anger he showed we reasonable because He was angry that the less fortunate were being taken advantage of.


2. What are some characteristics of an emotionally unstable person from what you have observed? I see them as unkempt, very odd socially and usually display strange outbursts of emotion. The book points out dressing oddly, inappropriate emotions, unsuitable behavior and not able to carry on a logical conversation.


3. Do you think Jesus displayed any of these characteristics? Jesus was often approached as a Rabbi so his dress was probably that of a typical teacher. His teaching is respected world wide so obviously His conversation is quite logical. Some of the things He did were not understood until later but again even His anger was easily justified. I don't think an insane person could function in society as well as He did.


4. What do you think about the idea that Jesus used hypnosis to trick people into thinking he was God? Hypnosis is not that powerful. It only works in small groups on people willing to submit to it. Jesus could not have used hypnosis to control large crowds or convert skeptics such as his half brothers and Paul. Since Paul's conversion was after the crucifixion, the fact that Jesus hypnotized Paul as a ghost from the grave would be quite and awesome magic trick.


5. If Jesus was crazy then that would make him similar to David Karesh or Jim Jones, do you see any similarities of them with Christ? The only similarity is that they thought they were messiahs. Notice that in order to control their followers they withdrew into private communes. Jesus operated on the streets of society. They also committed cruel acts against their followers such as kidnapping, sexual molestation and ultimately forced suicide. Jesus only showed compassion and gave people free will to follow him or not.

Chapter 8 Questions

We had a great discussion on the first three chapters Sunday. I will be getting that mp3 out tonight hopefully. Here are some questions for chapter 8 to ponder on.


1. Some people respond that they think Christ was a great man with great talent but was a little off mentally when he thought he was God, how would you respond?


2. What are some characteristics of an emotionally unstable person from what you have observed?


3. Do you think Jesus displayed any of these characteristics?


4. What do you think about the idea that Jesus used hypnosis to trick people into thinking he was God?


5. If Jesus was crazy then that would make him similar to David Karesh or Jim Jones, do you see any similarities of them with Christ?

Chapter 7 Discussion

Here are some responses to chapter 7 questions.


1. Some people say that Jesus never claimed to be God, do you think he did? There are numerous examples of Jesus claiming to be God. He referred to himself as "I am" and that he existed before Abraham. He also said that "I and the Father are one".


2. Can you list some clues that Jesus viewed himself as God? Jesus had 12 Apostles that indicate that Jesus view himself as God leading the 12 tribes of Israel. Jesus forgave sins even if they weren't against Him.


3. What are some examples of things that Jesus did that were very different from the way a normal Rabbi would teach? When Jesus said "Verily, Verily I say..." He was teaching by his own authority. Rabbis didn't ever teach by there own authority because they felt you needed at least two witnesses to agree. Jesus was basically saying that since He was God he didn't need any other witnesses to agree with Him.

Chapter 7 Questions

Sunday September 6 I taught the first lesson again for the next class. Lesson one covers chapters 1-3 but I still haven't covered the whole book on my blog. So here is chapter 7 and you can scroll down for previous posts.


1. Some people say that Jesus never claimed to be God, do you think he did?


2. Can you list some clues that Jesus viewed himself as God?


3. What are some examples of things that Jesus did that were very different from the way a normal Rabbi would teach?

Chapter 6 Discussion

Here are some responses to yesterday's questions.


1. Have you ever heard of the Jesus Seminar? I had not heard of them before this book but have noticed them being interviewed on shows on the History Channel and other stations now that I am aware of them.


2. If you heard a council was going to meat to discuss how authentic the four Gospel accounts are, what topics do you think would come up in the discussion? I would expect them to look at a document and figure out from the number of copies and archeology when the document was written and by who. Then they should compare with other known documents to determine which is the most authentic. The Jesus seminar just takes a vote with colored beads on their opinion. There is no scholarship to their techniques and they have the audacity to reject the Bible for manuscripts that are less authentic like the Gospel of Thomas that have only one copy, was written later and was not written by an eyewitness.


3. What are the concepts of "double dissimilarity" and "multiple attestation"? Double dissimilarity is when they say that what we know about Jesus was made up later by Christians and Jewish believers so they reject anthing Jesus said that was Jewish or Christian. That's a little ridiculous since Jesus was a Jew and started the Christian church. Multiple attestation is having more than one reference to an event. This is a good principle but they consider the Bible as one source rather than the multiple manuscripts it is derived from.


4. What documents do scholars that reject the Bible actually like to refer to as authentic in their minds? I mentioned above the Gospel of Thomas. There are also the Gospels of Barnabas and Judas and many other gnostic writings. I wander if they actually read these documents since they think Jesus was a feminist but the Gospel of Thomas says a female has to become male in order to be saved. (I guess Sonny and Cher's daughter is on the right path after all, oops, I'm gonna have to ask for forgiveness for that later.)


5. Does the Jesus Seminar have a valid point that the Jesus of history probably was quite different than the Jesus of Faith? Actually no! The New Testament manuscripts are all very authentic being written less than 30 years after events before legendary material could enter into them. Since most other ancient writings can't claim this then to doubt the Jesus of Faith you would have to doubt major historical figures such as Plato, Julius Caesar, Hannibal and Homer.